Nectarine

Hmm, I'm now thinking as a bridge between oneliner, IRC and Matrix \o/ (no, not Discord).

OK I had refused to read replies to this old post since I posted it, probably because I thought it was drunk nonsense that would embarrass me. Actually it was an OK post. I am happy to see that it's one of the rare forum posts that got replies (haha! see also: the special Discord channel you're not allowed in).

Also I have a new respect for zoi. Jesus Christ, you can tell mirrorbird oneliner from mirrorbird forum because he writes in Capital Letters. But zoi actually speaks like a grown-up. Love him. And zoi's "weird, poetic, or thoughtful things" is definitely the triptych of allowable comments on the oneliner. Ideally you should post one of each of those things, then you can't post any more, because that's three.

nyingen has carefully slid into the community and started ruining it.
something something MARVEL MOVIES.
Just kidding, every nyingen decision is great.

TIL zoi won't come back here. It's so sad to have such limits as we are not so much to come here.

I still don't see the point on the limit.

@Mindiel. There isn't any real point. This isn't Pouet.net. It's a social hangout, a radio station. A flooding on any chat will happen, scrolling or not.

If it's not meant to be a chat, then don't have it there. Make it a Pouet station, make it only be comments and leave it at that. Then it's truly one line.
I spent too much time here already, there's very little more I can add that Zoi and Mirrorbird haven't already covered.

The problem with "flooding will happen" is that we get complaints about it and people have felt put off, especially since some of them do veer into mini-rants or drunk-posting.

If you have better moderation stuff we can actually easily implement (the site is old, after all) to help curb unsocial behavior on the oneliner when it happens, we're all ears.

Unfortunately we don't know of any easy wins, and the existing tools are rather heavy, because I'd bet people would complain about being muted too, and that doesn't even get to bans. Those are the options we have.

There's no way to pull messages back once sent on the oneliner, so those are the tools of "hey, you broke the rules/ToS" not "hey, quit breaking the social contract by monopolizing the oneliner."

As such, I think nyingen's solution to try limiting it to three messages per person is not unreasonable for a first attempt at something. Every time I do happen to pop on by it seems like people are chatting just fine on the oneliner.

It absolutely was discussed on Discord, though perhaps the review period could've been longer and also copied to the forums here (not that many people check them anymore).

At any rate, people will always have a tendency to see what they want to or what happens only when they're online, and anything that didn't happen when they weren't around isn't a problem for them, but as moderators and admins we do have to take care of the site for all hours of the day.

--

As an addendum, if I'm being quite honest, I don't think there's ever going to be an or set of admins that people never don't like. Moderating things and keeping stuff running is not easy, especially when people are resistant to change, and if stuff was just left to run without much involvement you'd never see new members, because it'd become quite insular, nevermind that not moderating things potentially gets us into a lot of legal trouble.

Definitely not saying you can't (or shouldn't) complain, but conversations are easier when they're constructive and not just "this sucks and I hate it."

Also, like it would take a bunch of work to pipe in Discord (or Matrix, etc.), for little payoff, since people would take issue that they could no longer post to the oneliner from the website anymore, and those on Discord would be missing half the conversation even if they could since it would be quite a lot of work further to get the site to post back to Discord (full bridge).

It also wouldn't stop the "taking over the entire oneliner" problem, because those using the site to talk would still get flooded out while those on Discord would have an easier time following it.

And we can't even get emoji on this site without redoing it all, since almost none of it is Unicode aware, due to being on Python 2.7 which didn't handle that by default.

Try saving a form post with any emoji -> sad panda.

In an ideal world, where we didn't have day jobs and other local activities we also help run splitting our attention, we'd love to fix all these things and possibly give the site an overhaul, which might even allow better (more fine-grained) moderation tools for the oneliner, but...

and even if we did all that, a sidebar with messages stuffed in it still isn't an ideal way to run a full-featured chat, so there might still be issues with monopolization, people not knowing who is replying to who when it gets busy, etc.

That's the good part

See https://scenestream.net/forum/thread/205/?page=2#post2759

I voiced my concern on Discord. My constructive suggestions, mentioned by nyingen earlier in the post as a cooldown, among other things, got shot down. This isn't about how hard it is to be an admin, but keeping the site opened.

nyingen also said long conversations seemed to have scared new users away. (yes, some subject matters are polarizing, happens on ANY chat platform).
And this muzzle on messages made long time users leave. We now have to '#free' the oneline.

I stop by from time to time because pals are here, but I don't feel like engaging as much, if at all.
That being said, keep up the good work, Mindiell! Curious what you come up with

Yes, and? Like, you weren't the only one commenting on this on Discord. I didn't go back to look, but I recall people being alright with trying the 3 post limit idea and other solutions were talked through. It's definitely not constructive to be all "This idea sucked, you should've listened to mine."

Cooldowns require a whole bunch of extra tracking since it'd be per person and any number of people could comment on the oneliner, especially if we do it properly on the server so people can't find ways around it, which is probably part of why it got "shot down." It's a bunch of added complexity over the current solution that, being honest, I don't get how it actually solves the monologuing and moderation problems.

If the cooldown is too long, people complain they hold any conversation (unlike now), and if it's too short, people will just wait out the cooldown and keep posting. For someone passing by, a full oneliner by the same person is gonna look the same at first glance whether the messages were sent 10-20s apart or > 30s (enforced cooldown).

There is a site that does solve the mologuing problem with cooldown in their global chat and guess what? It's not useful for holding conversations. Their solution is to make the cooldown double every time someone posts shortly after the cooldown expires, leading to cooldowns in excess of 5 minutes if someone keeps up with posting. And I can guarantee if there was any sort of "conversation" it's since moved on.

We're doing what we can with what we have to solve what is inherently a people issue. Would you rather we used the other tools we have available to us? I can guarantee you'd be more pissed if we just started muting people.

*Sigh*
A cooldown was *A* suggestion, not *THE* suggestion. It was meant as an example here. Sorry that didn't come out like it should.

I will now do as I should, too, which is to keep quiet, shut up and not give more work to anyone. That will leave space for others to write a wall of text.

I think this place has spent its time, and is no longer useful. Come and visit Hypr https://hypr.website/ You don't want to be in a place that is essentially an elite that hates you, as a user. See you soon

If you're pretty fast, I can send you an invite. But you don't need it anyway. You can listen without a lot of cunts hating you.
best wishes, mirrorbird.

p.s. Some of us might remember actually scening in the 90s. bye.

The limit in OneLiner of three messages in a row by the same user seems reasonable to me.